| Author |
Message |
|
|
Post subject: "Italia dei Valori" is it a liberal party?
 Posted: Jul 25, 2009 - 11:58 PM #20304
|
|
Still a newbie
Joined: Jul 21, 2009
Posts: 11
|
|
| "Italia dei valori" is a political movement founded by Antonio di Pietro. This movement is a ELDR member and its related youth movement "giovani dell'Italia dei Valori" is a Lymec member and a ILFRY obersever partner. Unfortunately it's difficoult, not only for me, but for many other people too, to call IdV a liberal party. Many times, some IdV members publically supported unliberal ideas on economic and civil liberties, and many members and supporters of IDV officially declared they were communist and left wing people. I would talk with someone, on this forum, about the real nature of the IdV. Is IdV a liberal party? |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
 |
|
|
|
Post subject: RE: "Italia dei Valori" is it a liberal party?
Posted: Sep 02, 2009 - 11:50 AM #20309
|
|
Still a newbie
Joined: Jan 28, 2008
Posts: 19
|
|
C a n y o u g i v e e x a m p l e s o f t h o s e u n l i b e r a l i d e a s ?
I t i s s o m e t i m e s d i f f i c u l t t o s a y w h o i s l i b e r a l o r n o t . I r e m i n d t h a t E L D R a c c e p t e d F i a n n a F a i l , p a r t y t h a t d e f e n d s a n a n t i - b l a s p h e m y l a w . S o , e v e r y t h i n g i s p o s s i b l e I g u e s s . . . |
_________________
Elections - IMS Delegate - LYMEC Congress Sinaia 2010
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=61081037309&ref=ts
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject: RE: "Italia dei Valori" is it a liberal party?
Posted: Sep 07, 2009 - 12:23 PM #20311
|
|
Just arrived...
Joined: Sep 07, 2009
Posts: 3
|
|
Yes, examples are good. Hard to tell if one does not speak Italian...  |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject: RE: "Italia dei Valori" is it a liberal party?
Posted: Sep 08, 2009 - 09:21 PM #20314
|
|
Still a newbie
Joined: Jul 21, 2009
Posts: 11
|
|
Dear friends,
I'll give you many examples, and i'll tell you the reasons why, in my opinion, it's sometimes difficoult to say IDV is a liberal party.
Firstly, there are IDV MEP, such as Gianni Vattimo, who was communist and he still declares he is and will be communist forever. Many times, he (in Italy he's a notorius philosopher) opposed free market, he supported the repression of tibetans in China and also he supported boycott of Israeli goods and made strongly antisemitic declarations against the existence of the State of Israel.
I don't think this guy should be MEP as member of the ELDR/ALDE group. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject: RE: "Italia dei Valori" is it a liberal party?
Posted: Sep 08, 2009 - 09:21 PM #20315
|
|
Still a newbie
Joined: Jul 21, 2009
Posts: 11
|
|
| If you want, I can give you many examples translated in English. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject: RE: "Italia dei Valori" is it a liberal party?
Posted: Jan 16, 2010 - 06:54 PM #20353
|
|
Been here a while
Joined: Jun 24, 2005
Posts: 26
Location: IT
|
|
IdV?
Not a liberal party.
Di Pietro's party looks like an updated version of the old "Roman Catholic Inquisition". |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject: RE: "Italia dei Valori" is it a liberal party?
Posted: Jan 27, 2010 - 03:00 PM #20354
|
|
Just arrived...
Joined: Sep 08, 2006
Posts: 1
|
|
Italia dei Valori is a liberaldemocratic party, as D66 is in Holland. The two parties are so similar on political topics.
MEP Gianni Vattimo ran for Italia Dei Valori as "indipendent" because Italia dei Valori want to change the italian (old, self-rapresentative, corrupted, and so on...) political class with philosophers, intellectuals and other people who can give to Italy a better future.
Together with Vattimo and other 5 MEP, also Niccolo' Rinaldi, former Deputy Secretary General of ALDE, was elected last year: HE is now the President of Italia Dei Valori Group.
Anyway, is it not unusual that people of other liberal parties (as Francesco Violi, Responsable of PLI's Youth in the region of Emilia Romangna: http://www.partitoliberale.it/2009/02/25/il-pli-emilia-romagna-dopo-il-congresso-di-roma/) speak against IDV, expecially when they join the center-right coalition (with Berlusconi) and not the center-left as IDV.
All the best,
Alessandro |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject: RE: "Italia dei Valori" is it a liberal party?
Posted: Jan 27, 2010 - 03:09 PM #20355
|
|
Still a newbie
Joined: Jan 28, 2008
Posts: 19
|
|
W e l l t h a t w o u l d e x p l a i n s o m e c r i t i c i s m .
P l u s , I d o n ' t b e l i e v e t h a t a p a r t y t h a t a l l i e s w i t h B e r l u s c o n i c o u l d e v e r b e c l a s s i f i e d a s l i b e r a l . A l i b e r a l m u s t s t a n d f o r d e m o c r a c y , a c c o u n t a b i l i t y a n d p r e s s f r e e d o m - n o t h i n g o f w h a t t h e n e w D u c e d e f e n d s . |
_________________
Elections - IMS Delegate - LYMEC Congress Sinaia 2010
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=61081037309&ref=ts
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject: RE: "Italia dei Valori" is it a liberal party?
Posted: Jan 28, 2010 - 09:59 PM #20357
|
|
Still a newbie
Joined: Jul 21, 2009
Posts: 11
|
|
please, stop insulting. I didn't want to outrage anybody. Mine was just a question, and the reason is because sometimes Di Pietro hasn't liberaldemocratic points of view. The Italian Liberal Youth is an independent Youth Organization, which inherits the origins and the traditions of the Federation of the Young Liberals and it's sustained by the Italian Liberal Party. But fortunately, The Italian Liberal Party (PLI) DOESN'T SUPPORT the center right coalition. In 2008 elections the PLI ran ALONE, even if it gained just 0,3 %. If I joined the PLI and not the PdL, it's because I DON'T like Berlusconi and his ones, and because as you, I trust freedom, democracy and accountability. But I don't think I may support Antonio Di Pietro. I don't trust him at all, because he isn't better than the person he wants to fight.
Do you want a proof, we're not allies of Berlusconi? In region Latium, Mrs Antonietta Brancati PLI member, was elected with the list “Liberal and Reformers”as Member of the Regional Council for the former Center-Left president Marrazzo. She's allied with your party and she supported your party before joining PLI after its rebirth in 2004. So, please, don't lie.
I have nothing against your party. I Sincerely think that Niccolò Rinaldi is a great person and a real liberal. But Di Pietro many times speaks as a right wing leader, not as a liberal one. Gianni Vattimo said he would give more powerful weapons to Hamas and there isn't any reason to advocate the existence of the State of Israel. Is he a person who may give us a better future? Sincerely I don't think so and I really affirm that such people can't indorse our ideas. And I hope you really support the Oxford Manifesto. I don't want to declare war on you and on your party, but I have right to criticize the behaviour of your leader and the qualities of the people who was elected for the IdV in Italy, and now sit in the ALDE group.
Igor, as I explained you, I don't support Berlusconi. In fact PLI is not member of the right wing coalition. Neither on a regional level, nor on a national level.
Best Regards
Francesco Violi |
Last edited by FrancescoVioli on Jan 28, 2010 - 11:02 PM; edited 1 time in total
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject: RE: "Italia dei Valori" is it a liberal party?
Posted: Jan 28, 2010 - 10:52 PM #20358
|
|
Still a newbie
Joined: Jul 21, 2009
Posts: 11
|
|
Anyway, not only would I like to talk about Di Pietro and on the party I stand for, but on the politcal liberal proposals by the IdV. Without any personal attack or any resentment. If someone explains me well, I will agree with him/her. But I don't accept any person, who sais I'm not Liberal because I criticize someone or something and because I'm supposed to endorse Italian center-Right.
P.S. There are Liberals and free thinkers in the Italian Right too. There isn't just Berlusconi. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject: RE: "Italia dei Valori" is it a liberal party?
Posted: Jan 29, 2010 - 05:14 PM #20360
|
|
Still a newbie
Joined: Jul 21, 2009
Posts: 11
|
|
I read your program for the government. I admit, there are many, many points I agree with. From that point of view, IdV is a liberal party, and I sincerely think that our associations, the IdV Youth and the ILY (Italian Liberal Youth-Federation of the Young Liberals) may cooperate in order to achieve common targets and to campaign for Lymec and ELDR.
Anyway, I don't withdraw my criticisms about Di Pietro's leading style and about the candidacy of Gianni Vattimo for the European Parliament. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject: RE: "Italia dei Valori" is it a liberal party?
Posted: Mar 23, 2010 - 09:30 AM #20376
|
|
Addicted poster
Joined: Jan 01, 1970
Posts: 770
Location: UK
|
|
IgorCaldeira wrote: ›Can you give examples of those unliberal ideas?
It is sometimes difficult to say who is liberal or not. I remind that ELDR accepted Fianna Fail, party that defends an anti-blasphemy law. So, everything is possible I guess...
Don't forget Igor that many of us opposed the entry of Fianna Fail into ELDR for much those reasons - FF still has a very religious edge to it - although sadly, when the Progressive Democrats disbanded, it was no longer possible to argue that there was a better liberal alternative.
That being said, political alliances at European level have always been a bit of a broad church - as shown by the ALDE group in the European Parliament, where we in ELDR work with the centrists in the EDP in order to maximise our influence.
My view at the time when Ogra Fianna Fail was trying to join LYMEC was that there was a danger of the lines between ALDE and ELDR becoming blurred.
I felt that FF - as a centrist/populist party - ought to be joining the EDP part of our alliance, so as to maintain ELDR's liberal edge. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject: RE: "Italia dei Valori" is it a liberal party?
Posted: Mar 30, 2010 - 01:48 PM #20380
|
|
Still a newbie
Joined: Jan 28, 2008
Posts: 19
|
|
I d o n ' t a c t u a l l y k n o w i f F F s h o u l d b e a p a r t o f E D P . I t ' s r e l i g i o u s - l e a n i n g v i e w s p u t i t m u c h m o r e t o t h e r i g h t , w h e r e i t a l w a y s w a s , a n y w a y .
W e l l , l e t ' s h o p e f o r t h e b e s t a n d s e e i f t h e y b e c o m e m o r e c i v i l i z e d . D o n ' t h a v e m u c h h o p e , t h o u g h . |
_________________
Elections - IMS Delegate - LYMEC Congress Sinaia 2010
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=61081037309&ref=ts
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject: RE: "Italia dei Valori" is it a liberal party?
Posted: Mar 30, 2010 - 02:40 PM #20381
|
|
Regular visitor
Joined: Jan 01, 1970
Posts: 126
Location: DE
|
|
| Yes, indeed. The problems with Fianna Fail run deeper then just a few policy areas where we do not agree. The real problem is the underlying ideology, or rather the lack thereof. Based on liberal theory, you can come up with different answers, but if you lack that general base ideology, you can not just copy a number of policies of other liberal parties and then pretend that you are liberal. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject: RE: "Italia dei Valori" is it a liberal party?
Posted: Mar 30, 2010 - 06:18 PM #20382
|
|
Still a newbie
Joined: Jan 28, 2008
Posts: 19
|
|
A l w r o t e : › i f y o u l a c k t h a t g e n e r a l b a s e i d e o l o g y , y o u c a n n o t j u s t c o p y a n u m b e r o f p o l i c i e s o f o t h e r l i b e r a l p a r t i e s a n d t h e n p r e t e n d t h a t y o u a r e l i b e r a l .
C o u l d n o t a g r e e m o r e . |
_________________
Elections - IMS Delegate - LYMEC Congress Sinaia 2010
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=61081037309&ref=ts
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
